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8/16/2017 2:01 pm  #1


Political Talk: aka Why Are We the Only Ones Who Get It?

So, now the works council has been disbanded. What a shame.....

 

8/16/2017 2:13 pm  #2


Re: Political Talk: aka Why Are We the Only Ones Who Get It?

Yeah what a mess, can we kick him out yet?

 

8/16/2017 2:17 pm  #3


Re: Political Talk: aka Why Are We the Only Ones Who Get It?

What do those councils do?  I got the impression it was solely a committee that never actually met except to take pictures, so those guys could put the appointment on their resumes.

 

8/16/2017 2:17 pm  #4


Re: Political Talk: aka Why Are We the Only Ones Who Get It?

That one is like taking out an appendix. All it did was fill their calendar. Like he was going to listen to these tech giants? Show me one picture of him at the White House anywhere near a computer. That was like me chairing a meeting of auto mechanics and telling them what to do.

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8/16/2017 2:22 pm  #5


Re: Political Talk: aka Why Are We the Only Ones Who Get It?

Yeah I imagine it was for the benefit of both parties and nothing else. President gets to boast who is on his "council" and they get to boast and put on their resume on being on the White House council.

 

8/16/2017 2:29 pm  #6


Re: Political Talk: aka Why Are We the Only Ones Who Get It?

And let's face it, you don't get to be the CEO at Merck or Campbell's or any other Fortune 500 company by being some sort of tech visionary, generally-speaking.  Unless you built the company yourself like Elon Musk, you're generally an old rich guy who was born into a rich family and was prepped for the job since birth.  Those guys know as much about business ingenuity as Trump does.

 

8/16/2017 2:35 pm  #7


Re: Political Talk: aka Why Are We the Only Ones Who Get It?

Hahahaha....They didn't quit! I fired them! He must just hate himself so much. Seriously, you can't tell me he doesn't just punch his nutsack into a pulp every night after he's done sundowning.

http://gizmodo.com/winning-trump-dissolves-two-advisory-councils-after-ad-1797902057

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8/16/2017 3:07 pm  #8


Re: Political Talk: aka Why Are We the Only Ones Who Get It?

I'm just pleased we made it to 1,680 posts in the prior thread before Kwik's company blocked access.

That's pretty doggone civil of us.

In other news, an NPR interview this morning with Trumka who resigned from the manufacturing council said he resigned for 2 reasons.  First, the way Trump handles Labor vs Management is actually poor (holding secret meetings without Labor reps). Secondly, the entire council didn't meet as a whole or actualy so anything of note since being formed, so what's the point of it?

 

8/16/2017 3:11 pm  #9


Re: Political Talk: aka Why Are We the Only Ones Who Get It?

In my view we are taking the fringe folks who were out in Charlottesville way too seriously.

A WW 2 comparison?  A prediction of civil war?  Come on guys - this is a small group of folks who won't be able to change anything.

We are collectively acting (and by we I mean the half of the country that is left leaning, the right isn't up in arms about this) like we are a bunch of Polands and the Germans are about to blitzkrieg us.  No chance.

 

8/16/2017 3:17 pm  #10


Re: Political Talk: aka Why Are We the Only Ones Who Get It?

I think it's less about the prospect of a giant war (to me at least) and more about the prospect of an increase in hate crime and these stupid events in general.  The reason they were an underground movement and they used to wear hoods is because what they were doing was considered shameful to say the least.  If their belief system gets normalized they might be more vocal, more forward-facing, and act more aggressively figuring they have the tacit backing of law enforcement and the government.

 

8/16/2017 3:44 pm  #11


Re: Political Talk: aka Why Are We the Only Ones Who Get It?

The more we act like this isn't a big deal, the more they do it.

 

8/16/2017 3:58 pm  #12


Re: Political Talk: aka Why Are We the Only Ones Who Get It?

It's already bad enough to have racist moron relatives and/or old school classmates on Facebook.  I can't imagine how bad they'll get if they suddenly feel empowered to act on their worse impulses.

 

8/16/2017 4:21 pm  #13


Re: Political Talk: aka Why Are We the Only Ones Who Get It?

I'm not calling to murder people in their beds in the name of liberalism, but Yit is right, if you downplay it, it gets normalized even more. When they bring out the crazy, it needs to be addressed as to how wrong it is. The problem is, talk and debate is foreign to those half wits. They only understand violence and hate.

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8/16/2017 4:45 pm  #14


Re: Political Talk: aka Why Are We the Only Ones Who Get It?

Ah okay, I see what you guys are thinking.

Yes, I definitely think there's a risk of normalizing their views and in turn, emboldening them even more.

There's also an element of human psychology though that feeds off attention.  DJT is exhibit A.  Giving him the 24/7 news cycle on silver platter only makes him more powerful.  Literally ignoring him would solve a lot of the problems (because he wouldn't have been elected).

The same thought is around drinking.  Europe normalizes alcohol for teens, and they don't binge drink.  Go figure.  Shut it down at the first whiff and act all puritanical?  Better get the stomach pump ready. 

If we don't give them a stage, the actors have nowhere to play.

 

8/16/2017 4:48 pm  #15


Re: Political Talk: aka Why Are We the Only Ones Who Get It?

I mean, you can't tell me that the douchebag from that Vice video didn't fucking cream his pants when he knew his bullshit views would be broadcast all over the media.

 

8/16/2017 4:52 pm  #16


Re: Political Talk: aka Why Are We the Only Ones Who Get It?

Btw, keep in mind this is the President and children are watching.  They've been taught to believe this guy is a beacon of American ideals and this is the shit our kids see?  Frankly, we aren't yelling enough.

Last edited by Yitlin (8/16/2017 4:52 pm)

 

8/16/2017 4:53 pm  #17


Re: Political Talk: aka Why Are We the Only Ones Who Get It?

Exhibit B would be the process of oxygen being added to a fire.  Without attention, it's a bunch of morons wandering around a field like they used to do.

 

8/16/2017 4:55 pm  #18


Re: Political Talk: aka Why Are We the Only Ones Who Get It?

Well that's the part I fully agree on - Trump is reneging the normal duties of a president to provide moral leadership.

He should be reprimanding them as harshly and as specifically as he does with his political opponents at the very least.

 

8/16/2017 5:01 pm  #19


Re: Political Talk: aka Why Are We the Only Ones Who Get It?

Perhaps Kwik is right and I'll see this all differently with a kid in tow. I just worry that giving these guys a national presence it's likely to have unintended consequences.

The thing is, nobody will be able to say for sure what happens next. If we resist strongly and fuck their shit up at every opportunity and yet, lo and behold, they don't go back to their basements and cave dwellings, is it because of the resistance or in spite of it?

Same thing with my stance. If we ignore it and it grows, does that mean its because they felt no resistance or was it going to happen anyway?

I guess taking action is at least defendable, to kids in particular.

 

8/17/2017 6:48 am  #20


Re: Political Talk: aka Why Are We the Only Ones Who Get It?

Basically, I think just shutting someone, anyone down on the spot with no tolerance for their views doesn't make you a winner of the debate. It makes you a tyrant.  The repressed will just go into hiding, but they will still be there lurking and resent the tyrant and come back at an opportune time.

The way to win is to win them over with ideas and actually listening to them. Explaining how there are better ways. Sure, won't work on the committed top figureheads who are beyond gone, but the rank and file they have recruited? Those are the guys who need to feel they have a voice and a place in society and know they can do things differently, so they don't want to join in the first place.  Then the figureheads are powerless.

 

8/17/2017 6:53 am  #21


Re: Political Talk: aka Why Are We the Only Ones Who Get It?

Agreed Josta, progress never happens shutting anyone down. To understand a person and his view points, you must listen first, see where they are coming from. Fighting hate with hate never accomplishes anything. Listen, love and learn, at least that is what my fortune cookie just said

 

8/17/2017 6:56 am  #22


Re: Political Talk: aka Why Are We the Only Ones Who Get It?

LastOfJos wrote:

Basically, I think just shutting someone, anyone down on the spot with no tolerance for their views doesn't make you a winner of the debate. It makes you a tyrant. The repressed will just go into hiding, but they will still be there lurking and resent the tyrant and come back at an opportune time.

Normally I'd agree, but we're not talking about creamy versus chunky peanut butter here, Jos. We're talking about the worst kind of people. Not having tolerance for their views is the only right response. In no universe do they deserve to have a voice, let alone consideration for one. Fuck them and everything about them. I shouldn't wish them dead, but I don't have to wish them long lives either. Let them be oppressed and let them go into hiding. Let them slip their hoods back on and slink back to circle-jerking each other in the deep woods at midnight. They don't even deserve that. They're a toxic cancer on the entire world.
 

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8/17/2017 6:59 am  #23


Re: Political Talk: aka Why Are We the Only Ones Who Get It?

Spidey555 wrote:

Agreed Josta, progress never happens shutting anyone down. To understand a person and his view points, you must listen first, see where they are coming from. Fighting hate with hate never accomplishes anything. Listen, love and learn, at least that is what my fortune cookie just said

Fake news! Confucius wasn't black!

     Thread Starter
 

8/17/2017 6:59 am  #24


Re: Political Talk: aka Why Are We the Only Ones Who Get It?

You know, the man who had every right to feel that way, never felt like that.

Martin Luther King " love is the only force capable of transforming an enemy into a friend. We never get rid of an enemy by meeting hate with hate; we get rid of an enemy by getting rid of enmity. By its very nature, love creates and builds up. Love transforms with redemptive power. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that."

 

8/17/2017 7:00 am  #25


Re: Political Talk: aka Why Are We the Only Ones Who Get It?

And then he got blown away by a racist. 

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8/17/2017 7:01 am  #26


Re: Political Talk: aka Why Are We the Only Ones Who Get It?

Brief but related tangent.  I have actually changed my opinion on the confederate statue situation.  I used to want to keep them up for a variety of reasons, but I have reframed this into a different light.  Basically, we have vastly more and better ways of showing, remembering, and teaching history than statues in a park.

in most cases th statues are being relocated to museums or other parts of towns that are not central meeting spots like public parks.  This is all good in my book.

 

8/17/2017 7:02 am  #27


Re: Political Talk: aka Why Are We the Only Ones Who Get It?

kwikfingers wrote:

And then he got blown away by a racist. 

Jesus got crucified, others got killed by their enemy too.

But it changes things.

You could either live your life full of hate, or die loving and changing things.

Ok, I will stop with the fortune cookies lol

 

8/17/2017 7:05 am  #28


Re: Political Talk: aka Why Are We the Only Ones Who Get It?

Spidey555 wrote:

You know, the man who had every right to feel that way, never felt like that.

Martin Luther King " love is the only force capable of transforming an enemy into a friend. We never get rid of an enemy by meeting hate with hate; we get rid of an enemy by getting rid of enmity. By its very nature, love creates and builds up. Love transforms with redemptive power. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that."

Agreed Spidey.  Didn't realize I was channeling my inner MLK. 

Really good NPR podcast on this topic. It was about Denmark and its battle to reign in domestic citizens getting radicalized by ISIS and moving to Syria.

TL,DR:  Denmark using hate failed and made it worse.  Denmark changing tactics to be open and accepting had immediate results cutting down on the disgruntled youths who wanted to join.

 

8/17/2017 7:05 am  #29


Re: Political Talk: aka Why Are We the Only Ones Who Get It?

I don't know. I think Spidey might be able to agree with me, but I've never had much of a problem with statues of Confederate generals. I never looked at them as linked directly to racism. They were always honored for their battle prowess, and I think that was always the intent. The only one I've never approved of supporting is Nathan Bedford Forest, who started the KKK.

Fun fact: Nathan Bedford Forest actually left the KKK because it became too violent.

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8/17/2017 7:08 am  #30


Re: Political Talk: aka Why Are We the Only Ones Who Get It?

LastOfJos wrote:

Spidey555 wrote:

You know, the man who had every right to feel that way, never felt like that.

Martin Luther King " love is the only force capable of transforming an enemy into a friend. We never get rid of an enemy by meeting hate with hate; we get rid of an enemy by getting rid of enmity. By its very nature, love creates and builds up. Love transforms with redemptive power. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that."

Agreed Spidey. Didn't realize I was channeling my inner MLK.

Really good NPR podcast on this topic. It was about Denmark and its battle to reign in domestic citizens getting radicalized by ISIS and moving to Syria.

TL,DR: Denmark using hate failed and made it worse. Denmark changing tactics to be open and accepting had immediate results cutting down on the disgruntled youths who wanted to join.

Ok....so you're talking the difference between taking normal citizens and making sure they don't get radicalized versus people who are already unapologetically radicalized. How do you propose to take David Duke and love the racism out of him?
 

     Thread Starter
 

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