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5/30/2017 12:43 pm  #1


Endgame Plot Discussion (All Spoilers)

I think this is easier than Don and me constantly spoiler-tagging everything.

Anyways Don, here's my thing about the Ocean's Eleven stuff with Akechi after Sae's Palace:

I understand how they seamlessly got Akechi INTO the Metaverse.  The one thing I feel like is a plot hole is that after Akechi "kills" Joker, they show him walking away, down a hall by himself -- obviously he thinks he's done with his deed and he's going either back to the office, to his house, whatever.  At a certain point, he'd have to realize he was actually in the Metaverse and not in the real world (or if he never realizes it, he's just stuck in the Metaverse forever).  Maybe it's when he leaves the building, maybe it's when he encounters another person that's distorted, but it would have to happen off-camera, and when that happens he'd know the real Joker is alive.

How else does he get out?  I know he got in via Joker's phone, but after Sae leaves she takes the phone with her, so Akechi has no way to get out. 
 

 

5/30/2017 12:50 pm  #2


Re: Endgame Plot Discussion (All Spoilers)

The other thing is that wouldn't Akechi know something was up when the Palace didn't start collapsing when the Phantom Thieves took the briefcase treasure?  He knows that Palaces collapse the second the treasure is taken.  Since the PT took a fake treasure to trick him, the Palace didn't collapse.  It also doesn't make a lot of sense that he brought in dozens/hundreds of police officers to spring a trap on a Palace that was going to physically collapse.

I realize I'm pointing out plot holes, but I don't think video games should get a free pass on writing.

     Thread Starter
 

5/30/2017 4:13 pm  #3


Re: Endgame Plot Discussion (All Spoilers)

I think they used the app Futaba planted to get him out.  She planted it on Akechi's phone when she took it from him and acted like she was interested in it.  She was really planting a custom app that could be used to remotely activate the meta-app on Akechi's phone.

To your other point about the palace crumbling, Akechi must have known the palace wouldn't crumble because he's the one that called the cops into the palace.  He wouldn't risk such a large scale death toll.  That leaves another big plothole though.
 


[url]http://sigs.enjin.com/sig-ffxivarr/2fb1c713878a0cda.png[/url]
 

5/30/2017 4:19 pm  #4


Re: Endgame Plot Discussion (All Spoilers)

I thought the same thing about Futaba's app, but if she planted some app on his phone that can open/close the Metaverse, why did Sae need to show Akechi Joker's phone to get him INTO the Metaverse?  You'd think Futaba's app could do it remotely.

Meh, you can really go down a wormhole thinking about the intricacies of that plot point.

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5/31/2017 6:50 am  #5


Re: Endgame Plot Discussion (All Spoilers)

LegalEagle80 wrote:

I thought the same thing about Futaba's app, but if she planted some app on his phone that can open/close the Metaverse, why did Sae need to show Akechi Joker's phone to get him INTO the Metaverse?  You'd think Futaba's app could do it remotely.

Meh, you can really go down a wormhole thinking about the intricacies of that plot point.

Maybe it's because he would have heard the app confirm that he was entering the palace?  Wait, no because he would have heard it regardless of how it activated. 

Honestly, fuck if I kmow.
 


[url]http://sigs.enjin.com/sig-ffxivarr/2fb1c713878a0cda.png[/url]
 

5/31/2017 8:11 am  #6


Re: Endgame Plot Discussion (All Spoilers)

Have you beaten the game, Legal?

No rush I just wanna know how much I can talk about.


[url]http://sigs.enjin.com/sig-ffxivarr/2fb1c713878a0cda.png[/url]
 

5/31/2017 8:25 am  #7


Re: Endgame Plot Discussion (All Spoilers)

I've gotten 3 out of 5 of the recommendation letters in Shido's Palace.  This Palace sucks -- the save points are so far away from each other.

I kind of don't like how cartoony they're making Shido as a villain.  But I'll get into that when I beat the game.

How much further do I have after I beat Shido?  I imagine it's just another little bit in Mementos?  I've been keeping up with that, so I'm already as far as I can go in Mementos.

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5/31/2017 10:26 am  #8


Re: Endgame Plot Discussion (All Spoilers)

LegalEagle80 wrote:

I've gotten 3 out of 5 of the recommendation letters in Shido's Palace.  This Palace sucks -- the save points are so far away from each other.

I kind of don't like how cartoony they're making Shido as a villain.  But I'll get into that when I beat the game.

How much further do I have after I beat Shido?  I imagine it's just another little bit in Mementos?  I've been keeping up with that, so I'm already as far as I can go in Mementos.

There's a "palace" at the bottom of Mementos.  It's not long but the enemies are rough.  Be warned though that there's a lot of plot between Shido and Mementos.


[url]http://sigs.enjin.com/sig-ffxivarr/2fb1c713878a0cda.png[/url]
 

6/01/2017 8:33 am  #9


Re: Endgame Plot Discussion (All Spoilers)

Okay, at the point where I can send the calling card for the last palace.  I'm definitely chipping away at it.  There were some tough sub-bosses in there.  That said, I feel like the game goes through a bit of an inverse curve because the first palace is hard (because you have no supplies to replenish SP and you're weak), the middle gets easier for the most part and continues to get easier until the last palace, which is kinda hard in spots.  Still, having SP Adhesive 3 and about 50 coffees and curries is a game-changer.

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6/01/2017 9:18 am  #10


Re: Endgame Plot Discussion (All Spoilers)

Makoto and Morgana stay in my party as heals, plus Makoto is damn strong.  She's the most well rounded character stats and ability-wise other than Joker.  Other than that it's usually Yusuke as my fourth, but it's switchable.

How quick did you catch on about Akechi?


[url]http://sigs.enjin.com/sig-ffxivarr/2fb1c713878a0cda.png[/url]
 

6/01/2017 9:39 am  #11


Re: Endgame Plot Discussion (All Spoilers)

You mean did I catch on to him being a traitor?  Not at all.  I definitely missed the whole pancakes clue, that was a bit of good writing there.  I don't think anyone would have guessed he was Shido's son, so I assume you didn't mean that tidbit.

I was really frustrated at how quickly the gang wants to accept Akechi back into their group.  HE'S A SERIAL KILLER.  Come on, guys, you can't just overlook that because he was an "unloved" child.  Every serial killer is an unloved child.  That part stuck out to me like a sore thumb.  The Phantom Thieves had so much hate for a pervy volleyball coach, but a literal killer -- of one of their own dads no less -- is more easily forgivable.

     Thread Starter
 

6/01/2017 1:18 pm  #12


Re: Endgame Plot Discussion (All Spoilers)

I don't get the gang's logic on Akechi either.  I'm right there with you.  He killed a lot of people.  And yet they're all like "Come with us to defeat your dad!"  And I'm sitting there like "Uhhhhhh.  No."

I noticed the pancake thing.


[url]http://sigs.enjin.com/sig-ffxivarr/2fb1c713878a0cda.png[/url]
 

6/06/2017 2:12 pm  #13


Re: Endgame Plot Discussion (All Spoilers)

Beat the game.  Holy hell, that game goes on another 5 hours after you beat Shido.  

I have so many thoughts.  

-- I was going to make a joke the first night I played that Igor's voice actor was a very strange choice.  Little did I know it would actually come into play.

-- Overall I really liked it, although not as much as Persona 4.  I don't think the team was as strong.  I never did like Ryuji or Morgana, and I thought Haru was introduced way too late to make an impression.  I liked almost everyone else though, and the other non-team Confidants were great.

-- The style and battle system were top-notch.  I feel like for whatever reason, I didn't fuse as many personas in this game as I did in P4. I didn't feel like I needed to.

-- I wish the game was sillier.  The "outings" in school weren't nearly as memorable as P4.  The Hawaii trip was kind of a dud, the school fair was the same way, and the other trip got rained out.  I wish there was more school-related activities on the calendar that stuck out.  Looking back, that's really the biggest change I would make.  I laughed out loud in P4 a whole bunch, and I don't think I did in P5 once.  It was a much darker game overall.

-- It's strange Joker wasn't voiced.  I understand that a lot of JRPGs have silent protagonists, but there are random words he says out loud, he grunts and groans, so I feel like they should have voiced him at least as much as the other characters.

-- I also wish that you got to explore the dating a little more.  I realize you don't really do that in ANY Persona games, but it would have been neat to date earlier in the game and explore that relationship as you continue to play.   I ended up dating Makoto, and I loved her but I felt like I had relationship blue balls when the game ended.  Did they end up together?  Does she progress to a point where she feels comfortable letting her guard down?  It seems like the game never quite gives the player a scene where they're joking around and being all coupley together.  Maybe that happens with other confidants, but I doubt it.

-- I do want to play it again on NG+ so I can max every confidant (I maxed everyone but Iwai, Haru and Shiya) and not spend as much time doing side stuff to raise my stats, but I won't play it in the near future.

-- One puzzling thing: so some confidants are locked behind stat checks.  For example, you can't progress Sojiro unless you have max kindness.  But after you get that, progressing in Sojiro's confidant story grants you additional....kindness?  That was strange.

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6/12/2017 8:08 am  #14


Re: Endgame Plot Discussion (All Spoilers)

-The Igor thing made me drop my jaw.  I thought that was really well done.
-I agree with the P4 statement.  I loved P5 a lot, but P4 had more emotional weight tied to the characters themselves (NANAKO-CHAN).
-Joker should have been voiced, I agree.  You hear him talk during the Shido calling card speech, but other than that, it's just phrases and grunts.  I feel like the interrogation scenes especially would have benefited from conversation.
-In the case of Makoto (best girl), they agree to a long distance relationship.  Joker goes back home, and she goes to college to study to be a police commissioner, I think?  It never says they end up together, but it never says that any couples actually get together in Persona games, so that you can make your own canon in your head.

-Yeah, the gaining more kindness with Sojiro after kindness was maxed is weird.

-Futaba best sis.


[url]http://sigs.enjin.com/sig-ffxivarr/2fb1c713878a0cda.png[/url]
 

6/12/2017 9:44 am  #15


Re: Endgame Plot Discussion (All Spoilers)

I was weirded out by the idea that Joker could romance Futaba.  She's your little sister, come on.  They did a good job with making both her and Sojiro awesome by the end of the game.  At first I thought she'd be real annoying with her Leet-speak and Sojiro was a dick for no reason.

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6/13/2017 8:22 am  #16


Re: Endgame Plot Discussion (All Spoilers)

I want to post and tell you some of the things I've noticed in regards to this game tying into the rest of the series.

The fact that the protagonist is called Joker is a throwback to Persona 2.  In that game, people who called themselves on their own phone could talk to a man known as Joker who would grant their heart's desire, albeit in a twisted way.  Joker was the main antagonist for much of the game.  Further, if a persona user summoned Joker, they would become possessed and their persona would become a Joker persona.

The butterfly in the game is very significant.  It represents the being Philemon.  Philemon hasn't been seen in Persona since Persona 2, and the butterfly has come to represent the Velvet Room in general, but Igor's master is Philemon, who is a deity that represents the subconscious will.  He played a very active role in the first two (technically three) games, especially the second.  I wish they would bring him back.  The games he was in were much more philosophical.

Guns were used in Persona 1 as subweapons too.  Persona and Persona 5 are the only two games in the series that use guns as subweapons.
 


[url]http://sigs.enjin.com/sig-ffxivarr/2fb1c713878a0cda.png[/url]
 

6/13/2017 8:56 am  #17


Re: Endgame Plot Discussion (All Spoilers)

Wow, that's pretty deep.  Did you come up with all that yourself or did you read it on a message board or something?  I like easter eggs like that, they remind me of talking about books in college and trying to figure out the author's intent.

     Thread Starter
 

6/13/2017 9:53 am  #18


Re: Endgame Plot Discussion (All Spoilers)

LegalEagle80 wrote:

Wow, that's pretty deep.  Did you come up with all that yourself or did you read it on a message board or something?  I like easter eggs like that, they remind me of talking about books in college and trying to figure out the author's intent.

It's all explained in Persona 2's story.  Philemon is the being who grants humanity the ability to have different aspects of their souls and personalities.  Originally the persona users were chosen by Philemon himself (i.e. they actually met him and he interacted with them) rather than just having Igor be his proxy.  The main enemy of Philemon is Nyaranthotep, the Crawling Chaos of Lovecraftian lore.  Nyaranthotep represents unfettered desire and primal wants.  Philemon represents the soul and the strength of character to rise beyond physical need.

I've studied matters of the soul, id, ego, and superego for years.  I study Zen and philosophy quite a lot.  I just never have an occasion to discus the topics here.  When I was at a point where I physically wanted to quit, I started learning about how strong our souls are.  I know that sounds corny as fuck, but most of my will stems from the fact that my soul is infinitely stronger than my broken body.  I've become a very strong willed man.  I've had to.
 


[url]http://sigs.enjin.com/sig-ffxivarr/2fb1c713878a0cda.png[/url]
 

6/13/2017 9:59 am  #19


Re: Endgame Plot Discussion (All Spoilers)

Is Persona 2 your favorite in the series?  How would you rank them?

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6/13/2017 11:32 am  #20


Re: Endgame Plot Discussion (All Spoilers)

LegalEagle80 wrote:

Is Persona 2 your favorite in the series?  How would you rank them?

Persona 2
Persona 4
Persona 5
Persona 3
Persona
 


[url]http://sigs.enjin.com/sig-ffxivarr/2fb1c713878a0cda.png[/url]
 

7/05/2017 10:31 pm  #21


Re: Endgame Plot Discussion (All Spoilers)

Beat the sucker tonight and think I got the true ending.  I really really enjoyed this game.


http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/video151/images/a/ab/The_Aquabats!_Super_Show!_Season_One_()_-_Home_Video_Trailer_for_The_Aquabats!_Super_Show!_Season_One/revision/latest?cb=20130814202318
 

7/06/2017 4:09 pm  #22


Re: Endgame Plot Discussion (All Spoilers)

The end went to some weird places but overall I liked it.  I'm surprised you didn't think Persona games were your speed, but you really liked this one -- this is a Persona-ass Persona game.
 

     Thread Starter
 

7/06/2017 4:50 pm  #23


Re: Endgame Plot Discussion (All Spoilers)

Yeah, I can't explain it either.


http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/video151/images/a/ab/The_Aquabats!_Super_Show!_Season_One_()_-_Home_Video_Trailer_for_The_Aquabats!_Super_Show!_Season_One/revision/latest?cb=20130814202318
 

7/07/2017 1:20 pm  #24


Re: Endgame Plot Discussion (All Spoilers)

Time to go back and play Persona 4!  I'd play that game again.

     Thread Starter
 

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